full
Episode 419 - Gaza and Toto
Topics:
(00:43) Intro
(08:07) Mardi Gras
(15:38) Spies
(27:58) Morrison's Religious Motivation
(34:19) Flour Massacre - More Misleading Headlines
(43:12) Cut Sales of Military Parts
(52:09) Aaron Bushnell
(54:45) Chalmers and the RBA
(59:23) Paul Keating is not The Messiah
(01:03:03) George Galloway
(01:16:22) Farewell
(01:16:45) Galloway Continued
Chapters, images & show notes powered by vizzy.fm.
To financially support the Podcast you can make:
- a per-episode donation via Patreon or
- one-off donation via credit card; or
- one-off or regular donations via Paypal or
- if you are into Cryptocurrency you can send Satoshis.
We Livestream every Monday night at 8:00 pm Brisbane time. Follow us on Facebook or YouTube. Watch us live and join the discussion in the chat room.
You can sign up for our newsletter, which links to articles that Trevor has highlighted as potentially interesting and that may be discussed on the podcast. You will get 3 emails per week.
We have a website. www.ironfistvelvetglove.com.au
You can email us. The address is trevor@ironfistvelvetglove.com.au
You can send us a voicemail message at Speakpipe
We have a sister podcast called IFVG Evergreen. It is a collection of evergreen content from the weekly podcast.
Transcripts started in episode 324. You can use this link to search our transcripts. Type "iron fist velvet glove" into the search directory, click on our podcast and then do a word search. It even has a player which will play the relevant section. It is incredibly quick.
Transcript
Suburban Eastern Australia, an environment that has, over time,
Speaker:evolved some extraordinarily unique groups of homosapiens.
Speaker:But today, we observe a small tribe, akin to a group of meerkats, that
Speaker:gather together atop a small mound to watch, question, and discuss the
Speaker:current events of their city, their country, and their world at large.
Speaker:Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known as the
Speaker:Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.
Speaker:Welcome back, dear listener.
Speaker:Yes, the Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove podcast talking about news
Speaker:and politics, sex and religion.
Speaker:Ah, we're here in, well, I'm in Brisbane, Australia.
Speaker:Scott is in Mackay, regional Queensland.
Speaker:Scott, how are you?
Speaker:Good, thanks Trevor.
Speaker:G'day Joe.
Speaker:G'day listeners.
Speaker:I hope everyone's well.
Speaker:And Joe is with us, but our tech guy is having a technical problem and
Speaker:beforehand his audio was a bit scratchy.
Speaker:So with fingers crossed, I say, Joe, how are you?
Speaker:Hopefully that's fixed it.
Speaker:No, it's not really improved yet.
Speaker:Yeah, it's still dodgy, Tech Guy Joe is going to just do his tech magic on his
Speaker:own audio and we'll try and chime in from time to time, but don't know how
Speaker:much of Joe we're going to get in this episode, while he sorts his stuff out.
Speaker:Anyway, we're going to talk about, well, we'll just catch
Speaker:up on some personal things.
Speaker:What are we grateful for?
Speaker:we're going to talk about the Sydney gay and lesbian Mardi Gras.
Speaker:Scott might have opinions on that.
Speaker:Spies, our spy agency was talking about a politician who's a spy and
Speaker:then subsequently revealed that the, the spying group that he hadn't
Speaker:referred to was actually China.
Speaker:And a little bit about the departure on Scott Morrison and the religious sort of
Speaker:motivations behind a lot of what he did.
Speaker:And we have to talk about Gaza again.
Speaker:It's just It just keeps going worse and worse and, a bit about Assange, a
Speaker:bit about, Jim Chalmers and the Reserve Bank, and maybe we'll get time to do a
Speaker:little bit on this guy, George Galloway, who won a by election in the UK.
Speaker:Did you guys get a chance to see any of the stuff around him?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Right, okay.
Speaker:Which seat was he running for?
Speaker:Was it Boris Johnson's old seat or not?
Speaker:No, I don't know which, I can't remember the name of it, but I'm really interested
Speaker:in him because of just his rhetorical style in dealing with With journalists,
Speaker:so that's the part that got me.
Speaker:A little bit like that guy who was the head of the union, the railway
Speaker:union, was it Mick something or other?
Speaker:And just the way he wouldn't take shit from people, particularly
Speaker:journalists, and would just, would call out nonsense questions.
Speaker:And this guy has a similar style, which I find very refreshing.
Speaker:Now, he might be completely nuts on some issues, I'm not sure,
Speaker:but just He is, apparently.
Speaker:, we got that, Joe, that he is apparently, but then we missed the
Speaker:other part that you said anyway, we'll, we'll persevere with things.
Speaker:thank you to the people.
Speaker:Well, if you're watching on the live stream, you'll see that I'm not wearing
Speaker:glasses and Scott finding it difficult.
Speaker:Well, just unusual.
Speaker:I've worn glasses since I was 16, and yeah, got the intraocular lenses, so,
Speaker:right eye was done on a Wednesday, left eye done on the Thursday, and I
Speaker:was certified to drive on the Friday.
Speaker:Scott, quite incredible, isn't it?
Speaker:It is very bizarre.
Speaker:Yeah, and I did drive to the Sunshine Coast on the Saturday
Speaker:and could see perfectly fine.
Speaker:So, are the lenses, they're man made lenses?
Speaker:Yes, they're courtesy of Johnson Johnson.
Speaker:Okay, gotcha.
Speaker:So, yep, they hold your eye open for about 15 minutes and Cut the, the, God given
Speaker:lens out, Scott, and whack the, the jelly like plastic one in there and, off you go.
Speaker:So, anyway, it's working well.
Speaker:Are they now permanently attached there, or do they come out?
Speaker:Yeah, they're in there permanently.
Speaker:Okay, gotcha.
Speaker:Yeah, and, very good for distance and okay for reading, and at the moment the,
Speaker:just sort of looking at the computer screen is probably the worst distance
Speaker:at the moment, but hopefully I've still got, Some improvement left in my eyesight
Speaker:as my brain and eyes work together.
Speaker:But for somebody who's had glasses since I was 16, like just these different things.
Speaker:Every time I walk into the shower, I just go to reach for my
Speaker:glasses to put them on the sink.
Speaker:And, going to bed at night or getting up in the morning, I reach for the glasses
Speaker:that aren't there and open the oven.
Speaker:I was cooking something the other night.
Speaker:I opened the oven door, a lot of heat came out of the oven, I thought.
Speaker:Well, this is going to fog up my glasses and then nope,
Speaker:because I wasn't wearing glasses.
Speaker:There's a whole range of different times where I've just automatically
Speaker:thought I have glasses on.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:So, very interesting.
Speaker:So, anyway, I recommend it, dear listener, if you're, got sort of cataracts.
Speaker:happening.
Speaker:And, yeah.
Speaker:Alison in the chatroom says congratulations on your new eyeballs.
Speaker:I remember when I got my eyes lasered 20 years ago and it was life changing.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:Brian's had his eyes lasered too.
Speaker:He now wears reading glasses.
Speaker:That's it.
Speaker:That's amazing, how many people have actually had it done when
Speaker:you start talking about it.
Speaker:So, so yeah, so, and so thank you to the people who sent messages
Speaker:wishing me a speedy recovery.
Speaker:I was very slack in not actually responding, but thank you Mark
Speaker:and Paige and anti US sentiment and thank you Paul from Canberra.
Speaker:and anybody else who I might have missed who sent a well wish, thank you.
Speaker:yeah, so, things we're grateful for.
Speaker:Now dear listener, by the way, this podcast has chapters, so if you don't
Speaker:want to hear our little shenanigans about our personal life and stuff, on
Speaker:your podcast app, look for chapters and you can scoot past different topics.
Speaker:And get into the meat of things straight away, if you don't want
Speaker:to listen to the guff, but anyway.
Speaker:Having said that, things we're grateful for.
Speaker:So on the PEP, the Planet Extra podcast, they kick off with the things
Speaker:they're grateful for segment, which I think is a useful thing to do.
Speaker:Watley's not so sure about it, but anyway, let's just give it a go.
Speaker:they mentioned, archive.
Speaker:md, This is a website you've got to try if you want to get
Speaker:past, paywalls on newspapers.
Speaker:So if you go to archive.
Speaker:md and type in the URL of an article from Sydney Morning Herald or The Australian
Speaker:or something like that, that's behind a paywall, you'll get access to it.
Speaker:Incredible.
Speaker:Don't know how long that's going to last.
Speaker:This thing sort of pretends to be Google and gets in that way.
Speaker:That makes sense.
Speaker:So, so that's just been an interesting thing to use.
Speaker:and then in terms of things I'm grateful for, I would say anesthetic.
Speaker:Because I love it.
Speaker:When I'm in some sort of day surgery or something, and they start
Speaker:putting a needle in your arm and tell you you're going to be going
Speaker:to sleep, and it just is fantastic.
Speaker:I love a shot of anaesthetic, so yeah, there you go,
Speaker:that's what I'm grateful for.
Speaker:Scott, anything that you're grateful for?
Speaker:I was grateful that Nikki Haley kicked Trump's ass in the Washington DC primary.
Speaker:Did she?
Speaker:Yeah, that was just reported this afternoon on my new daily that I got.
Speaker:Is there something unusual about the Washington, well, I guess
Speaker:the Washington, they all hate It's just the Washington area.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They do hate Trump.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And so she kicked his ass in that.
Speaker:But you know, like they said, you got, you got to win 1, 285 delegates.
Speaker:She's got 14 now.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So, you know, I think.
Speaker:Trump's going to win that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So, Scott, before we get on to just the recent events with the Sydney Gay and
Speaker:Lesbian Mardi Gras and the fact that the New South Wales Police were asked
Speaker:not to march in the parade, I remember talking or hearing from somebody.
Speaker:He was kind of pissed at the Mardi Gras as having been overtaken by
Speaker:oiled up, muscly types of extravagant, over the top, sort of, gay and
Speaker:lesbian and queer community members.
Speaker:And it kind of mis overpowered, misrepresented, ignored the more low key
Speaker:Members of that community, who I think you would fall into the category of, Scott.
Speaker:That category, you know, it's, it's one of those things.
Speaker:I have never attended anything to do with the Mardi Gras or anything like that.
Speaker:I haven't been down for it or anything else.
Speaker:there was one time that me and Brian were heading down to
Speaker:Sydney and that sort of stuff.
Speaker:And I said, well, if we waited a week, we could go to Mardi Gras.
Speaker:Is there any interest?
Speaker:And he says, not really.
Speaker:So that's just our attitude.
Speaker:Now, you know, we're.
Speaker:Two old, cis, white, gay men and that sort of stuff, we just Don't.
Speaker:We don't like it.
Speaker:Well, it's not that we don't like it.
Speaker:It's not your scene.
Speaker:It's just not your taste.
Speaker:No, exactly.
Speaker:You know, I can, I remember there was a years and years ago, I
Speaker:remember I was reading the, they had, taken out the, what was it?
Speaker:No, is it, was the, poet and that sort of stuff in Sydney that was a famous queer
Speaker:Can't remember what his name was, but he had, he was writing to one of his other
Speaker:lovers and he says, I don't see what the, I don't see what a bunch of screaming
Speaker:queens parading up and down Oxford Street are going to do for our cause.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So anyway, having said that, it started off as a protest
Speaker:march and that sort of stuff.
Speaker:And those people in 1978 had a hell of a lot to be very pissed off about,
Speaker:you know, they were treated very badly by the cops and everything else.
Speaker:Now, the cops have recently apologised for the homophobic attitudes that
Speaker:were prevalent in the police force at the time, and they said that a lot of
Speaker:cases that went unsolved were because of homophobia and that sort of stuff,
Speaker:where they said, well, you know, it's just a pair of queers, don't worry
Speaker:about it, and that sort of thing.
Speaker:So it was, it was a very disgusting time in our society.
Speaker:So that was the one thing where I thought to myself, okay.
Speaker:This is okay for the organisers to ask the police not to march in uniform.
Speaker:The second thing was the most recent event of that guy that, was a copper
Speaker:and that sort of stuff that used his service weapon to Sorry, just backtrack.
Speaker:You're saying back in the day when it first started that the
Speaker:Police were asked not to march.
Speaker:No, no, they were, they were just recently asked.
Speaker:The recent event.
Speaker:Yeah, they were just recently not asked to march in uniform because in 78 they broke
Speaker:it up and that sort of stuff and they, they met the, they met the protesters
Speaker:with Trojans and that type of thing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So dear listener, just for background, recently, there was the arrest
Speaker:of serving officer Beaumont Lamar Condon over the alleged double murder
Speaker:of a missing Sydney gay couple.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:serving officer arrested over the double murder of a gay couple.
Speaker:So that's what's happened in the last week or so.
Speaker:Yeah, that was the second thing that happened in the last week or so.
Speaker:I couldn't tell you what was the main.
Speaker:What was the main impetus behind the organizing committee
Speaker:asking the police not to march?
Speaker:Well, that was it.
Speaker:It was that second one.
Speaker:Well, what was the other one?
Speaker:The other one was the apology that was handed out to people and that sort of
Speaker:stuff over the years of neglect and everything else from the police force.
Speaker:I hadn't heard of that.
Speaker:I'm sure it was in response to this.
Speaker:That doesn't surprise me.
Speaker:It doesn't surprise me at all that that was in response to that.
Speaker:Now, I'm in two minds.
Speaker:I think the second thing was probably the least that they had to
Speaker:worry about and that sort of stuff.
Speaker:Like, you know, the coppers, the coppers shot those two and everything else
Speaker:because it was a Love Triangle that went wrong, and he shot them both.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:I mean, But Brian said that one look at his social media would ring enough
Speaker:alarm bells to think to yourself that you wouldn't want to go out as a
Speaker:copper, but anyway, it is what it is.
Speaker:But I mean, every community has a, has its good and bad apples.
Speaker:Of course we do, exactly, and it's one of those things, that's why
Speaker:I just think to myself that, do I think that the cops should have been
Speaker:beat, excuse me, do I think the cops should have been asked not to march?
Speaker:Not over that incident.
Speaker:No, not over that incident.
Speaker:I mean, what if he was, what if, a motorcyclist, you
Speaker:know, murdered a gay couple?
Speaker:Like, did everybody riding a motorcycle end?
Speaker:Or, you know Well, then you might have a problem with the docks
Speaker:on bikes then, you never know.
Speaker:Yeah, it's kind of like you've It's not like the police force encouraged in any
Speaker:way the murder, it's just by a member who was acting on their own, on their own,
Speaker:without representing the group at all.
Speaker:So Joe, is the argument that the police were slack?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And, and that's, okay.
Speaker:But were they particularly slack because towards the gay community, to the
Speaker:LGBTIQ community, or were they just, because I mean, he could have murdered
Speaker:a heterosexual couple or something.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:I think.
Speaker:Still having trouble with you, Joe, but we'll keep going, anyway, they
Speaker:changed their minds, apparently, so the Mardi Gras organisers later
Speaker:reversed their decision and allowed police to march in plain clothes.
Speaker:Is what happened, so.
Speaker:Yeah, I know, which is, I would have thought that you'd want them there in
Speaker:uniform, because the 78ers, who were the first in that first Mardi Gras, they had
Speaker:a hell of a lot to be very pissed off with the New South Wales Police Force.
Speaker:Because they came round, they came round whatever corner it is on
Speaker:Oxford Street and they were there lined up across the streets and
Speaker:that sort of stuff with truncheons and they beat the shit out of them.
Speaker:You know, Then when they were finally invited to march and that sort of
Speaker:stuff in uniform, the 78ers all gave them hugs and everything else when
Speaker:they came around the corner, so that was a Very positive movement on behalf
Speaker:of the police and that sort of stuff.
Speaker:Which is why I think that it's No, I'd probably reverse my decision.
Speaker:I think the Mardi Gras committee should have never actually tried to ban them
Speaker:and that sort of stuff from marching.
Speaker:You know, I just think to myself that that one bad apple has
Speaker:tarnished the entire bunch.
Speaker:Yes, unless they've got some pretty strong evidence of systemic Issues in
Speaker:the police force, then, I think that was a poor decision, because you really, you
Speaker:really want the police to be exhibiting to everybody that they're accepting of
Speaker:the LGBTIQ community, and, will treat them as equally as any other group, so,
Speaker:short sighted decision, I think, that one, but, I think it was very short sighted.
Speaker:Yeah, so, so that was that one, Spies, Scott.
Speaker:so, the head of ASIO It's the word, name the bloke.
Speaker:No, so the head of ASIO it could be either a guy or a girl, you never know.
Speaker:Indeed, could be.
Speaker:so the head of ASIO, Mike Burgess, has alleged that a former Australian
Speaker:politician, quote, sold out their country, party and former colleagues.
Speaker:After being recruited by spies for a foreign regime.
Speaker:so that was the head of ASIO.
Speaker:But he refused to name who the politician was.
Speaker:And, he said, Most commonly they offer their targets consulting opportunities.
Speaker:Promising to pay thousands of dollars for reports on Australian
Speaker:trade, politics, economics, foreign policy, defence and security.
Speaker:Don't we have a former Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, former Minister
Speaker:Pine, former Treasurer, Joe Hockey.
Speaker:A lot of former guys who are working with other foreign governments and
Speaker:other foreign Yeah, but they are actually working with their allies.
Speaker:They're not actually working with China, which is what,
Speaker:which is one of those things.
Speaker:I just think to myself that, yeah, if you know, we're not,
Speaker:it's, it's one of those things.
Speaker:Now, I, at the time, you know, I've changed my mind on something else too.
Speaker:Now this is, I heard this on a podcast, just recently.
Speaker:It was, I think, forget who it was.
Speaker:You've changed your mind on whether, on naming this guy?
Speaker:No, no, no, no, no, this is something entirely different.
Speaker:Now this is something entirely different because, they were actually saying,
Speaker:they were saying at the time, On the podcast, they were saying that, yes,
Speaker:you want us not to actually go out there and consult and that sort of stuff.
Speaker:I understand why, but at the same time, you took away our lifetime pension, which
Speaker:is the only way a politician is ever going to make money is either from a lifetime
Speaker:pension or go out and consult somewhere.
Speaker:So they were actually saying that, that you've actually, if you're going to,
Speaker:if you're going to implement a ban on politician, on former politicians going
Speaker:into consulting, then you actually got to, you got to replace their income.
Speaker:Which did actually, it backed me into a corner.
Speaker:I thought, you bastard, you've got me there.
Speaker:Well, couldn't they work in an area unrelated to the portfolio they were in?
Speaker:I don't think that, I don't think anyone would want to talk to them.
Speaker:People change careers and work in but I just don't think anyone would want
Speaker:them there, because they didn't have, they don't have any of the contacts or
Speaker:anything else that they're paying for.
Speaker:But people are expected these days to change jobs.
Speaker:regularly, and, and not just employers, but also the nature of their jobs.
Speaker:Like, you know, the job people are doing in their twenties or thirties
Speaker:will be different in their forties and different again in their fifties.
Speaker:Like, there's an expectation that everybody else sort of has career changes.
Speaker:it's not like they can't earn money doing something else, but just
Speaker:unrelated to, particularly a minister.
Speaker:Unrelated to the portfolio they were in, I don't think, if they're worth
Speaker:their salt, they should be able to get a job somewhere doing something.
Speaker:Yeah, one would have thought so.
Speaker:So you could be a defence minister and, and go and work in some
Speaker:sort of other capacity in the economy besides defence, surely?
Speaker:Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker:It's just one of those things.
Speaker:It's just one of those things that made me examine my own thoughts
Speaker:and that sort of stuff on it.
Speaker:Anyway.
Speaker:There's going to be a limited number of places that you can
Speaker:go that you haven't worked in.
Speaker:But you pick up skills in being in government.
Speaker:In management.
Speaker:In management.
Speaker:What I'm saying is if you've been minister for education and then got shuffled
Speaker:into defence ministry and then shuffled into, you know, that leaves you with a
Speaker:lot less places you can go work.
Speaker:Yeah, but I think what we're actually saying is, you know, you've got this
Speaker:problem with this revolving door, like, you know, Pine is probably the
Speaker:most recent example who left He left the government as a defence minister
Speaker:and then popped up on a board and that sort of stuff for some yank defence.
Speaker:Yeah, him and John Hockey and all the rest are all lining up companies to get
Speaker:on the gravy train with the whole Orcus deal because there's money to be made.
Speaker:And look, maybe for ministers?
Speaker:Look, why not?
Speaker:Give ministers a lifetime pension and say, to keep them happy, whatever it takes.
Speaker:But, I'd love to have superannuation.
Speaker:That would be if they scrubbed the economy, they'd be as
Speaker:screwed as the rest of us.
Speaker:Yeah, right.
Speaker:so yeah, so, and what do you think of Whether he should have named
Speaker:the politician involved, Scott?
Speaker:I
Speaker:think it's very amusing right now sitting there watching them tear each
Speaker:other apart over it and that sort of stuff like, you know, you've had Malcolm
Speaker:Turnbull's son and that sort of stuff come out recently and say that he was
Speaker:offered and that sort of stuff a a position on a firm and that type of thing.
Speaker:you've also got Dutton, that's the stuff's throwing rocks, saying it
Speaker:was probably a former Labor, Labor member, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, Dutton came out and said, I bet you it was a Labor guy.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly, which I don't think you could actually say that for certain
Speaker:that it wasn't actually a Labor guy.
Speaker:It might well have been a Labor guy.
Speaker:But, you can't be certain of that.
Speaker:Particularly when Turnbull's son was approached.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:He's probably a Labor guy now.
Speaker:Sorry?
Speaker:He probably is a Labor guy now, given the state of the Liberal Party.
Speaker:Turnbull's son is probably a Labor guy, but, look, I've got a theory.
Speaker:Yeah?
Speaker:The reason why he didn't give any details, and he didn't name the politician,
Speaker:was because Because he'd been sued.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Because there wasn't enough there to actually, get people worried.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:And that it's a, and that he's really, oh, head of ASIO comes out and says all
Speaker:this, oh, there's this, major operation, can't tell you anything about it.
Speaker:there's a politician involved, can't tell you anything about it.
Speaker:Probably, if it, it probably was, it's possibly a very minor matter
Speaker:that you'd think, well, where was the, there's no major security risk
Speaker:there, no major damage to Australia.
Speaker:Oh, it wouldn't surprise me if it was a very lightweight.
Speaker:And one of his reasons for not revealing it is because he's trying to beat up
Speaker:the importance of and need for ASIO.
Speaker:Now, using that new website that I talked about, which was the webpage archive one,
Speaker:I managed to look at, this afternoon, a City Morning Herald, article, and in
Speaker:that, They say that China's leading spy agency was revealed as the organisation.
Speaker:In an exclusive interview with this Masthead and 60 Minutes, ASIO Director
Speaker:General Mike Burgess told them it was China, but he hit back at calls for him
Speaker:to identify the traitorous ex politician.
Speaker:so, In his, sort of, initial statement, Burgess referred to this A Team, and
Speaker:in his meeting with the Masthead, the Sydney Morning Herald, he
Speaker:revealed that this A Team was China's Ministry of State Security, MSS.
Speaker:In that same article, they referred to an Alan Joski, J O S K E, a
Speaker:leading Australian scholar on Chinese intelligence, and he says that
Speaker:China's spy agency has decades of expertise operating around Australia.
Speaker:Historically its operations have been hidden through a veneer of
Speaker:academic or business relationships.
Speaker:And it's difficult to systematically root them out.
Speaker:Once an Australian is inside China, they're on MSS home turf, where it has
Speaker:the greatest ability to use its coercive powers and surveillance capability.
Speaker:And as an example, he cited a small Australian media delegation to China last
Speaker:year as part of a long standing exchange program, where the group met with Chinese
Speaker:journalists and foreign affairs analysts.
Speaker:And, Joskey says one of those analysts was a spy officer.
Speaker:Bernard Keane, writing in Crikey, said, Well, he was on that trip
Speaker:as one of the media people.
Speaker:And basically it was just a media trip and yes they were in China and he
Speaker:said he expects that he would have met more than one person who was a spy.
Speaker:He expects he would have met scores of them and of course
Speaker:he was getting a party line.
Speaker:It was still an interesting and worthwhile experience.
Speaker:And he says that, you know, he's no lover of China.
Speaker:what does he say here?
Speaker:Um, I was part of the delegation and I'm somewhat puzzled by
Speaker:McKenzie and Joski's claim.
Speaker:said he would have been having contact with lots of spies, he assumes.
Speaker:And, he said this was when they were just the first group of
Speaker:Australian journalists allowed to come to China since the pandemic.
Speaker:And he said, did it change our minds on China?
Speaker:I suspect not.
Speaker:Certainly in my case, I still think it's a monstrous regime.
Speaker:So Bernard Keane and Crikey isn't a China lover, but he just makes the point.
Speaker:It's just a delegation goes, meets people, and that's an example used in
Speaker:a fear mongering article in the Sydney Morning Herald as an example of the
Speaker:coercive efforts by the Chinese spy agency that delegations are taken over.
Speaker:Honestly, when you read this Sydney Morning Herald article, it does all seem
Speaker:like a bit of a beat up over nothing, and the fact that this ASIO head hasn't Given
Speaker:any specifics about who the politician is and what he revealed, what do you
Speaker:think the worst case could be, Scott?
Speaker:Imagine what could a regular politician, let's just say not a minister, any
Speaker:other politician, what secret could they reveal that would be worthwhile to China?
Speaker:That they didn't already know.
Speaker:That's the whole point, you know.
Speaker:We are awash with foreign agents over here in this country.
Speaker:You know, it's just that China's the latest boogeyman.
Speaker:Now, you know, everything that happens over here, the Yanks know about, the
Speaker:British know about, the Kiwis know about, the Canadians know about.
Speaker:The Indians probably over here finding out stuff too.
Speaker:It's, it's just, it is what it is, you know.
Speaker:It's What, what could, what do you think they'd say?
Speaker:We now have these weapons.
Speaker:Well, it's pretty public knowledge in the agencies as to what
Speaker:weapons we're buying from America.
Speaker:The capabilities of these weapons are X, Y, Z.
Speaker:Well, they already know the capability of these weapons.
Speaker:And what would an average politician know of any significant detail that would be
Speaker:advantageous to a foreign spy agency?
Speaker:No, it's probably all just a media beat up that Burgess was
Speaker:carrying on with, you know.
Speaker:He said that, you know, if you just listen to the language, a traitorous former MP.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Well, who was he, who was he, who was he treasonous with?
Speaker:What did he actually hand over and that sort of stuff, and then
Speaker:that would be the end of it.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Because I honestly believe that they actually did find out
Speaker:what he actually handed over.
Speaker:He would be sitting there saying, and, you know.
Speaker:I think that's my theory that I'm working on.
Speaker:So, so, so yeah.
Speaker:That's the spy agency, matter.
Speaker:And we'll see what comes of that down the track.
Speaker:Scott Morrison has departed the room, finally.
Speaker:Yeah, finally, yeah.
Speaker:And, let me just see what, what his comments were.
Speaker:this is the calibre of part of his, farewell.
Speaker:Quoting Scott Morrison here.
Speaker:We should be careful about diminishing the influence and voice of Judeo
Speaker:Christian faith in our Western society.
Speaker:this was in an interview with a friendly journalist.
Speaker:As doing so risks our society drifting into a valueless void.
Speaker:It's all about respecting each other's human dignity through our creation,
Speaker:by God's hand, in God's image, for God's glory, where each human life
Speaker:is eternally valued, is unique, is worthy, is loved and capable.
Speaker:Thank Christ we don't have to listen to that prick anymore, Scott.
Speaker:He was an absolute tool, wasn't he?
Speaker:I don't think Christ had anything to do with it.
Speaker:Joe, you're sounding better.
Speaker:Whatever you did.
Speaker:I'm on my 5G connection.
Speaker:Okay, that's it.
Speaker:Why weren't you on that before?
Speaker:What were you on before?
Speaker:Oh, that's 5G.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Ah, okay, instead of your, No, I was on my Fiber before.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:Well, you're coming through beautifully now, Joe.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Feel free to contribute.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Anything you want to bite into about what we said before?
Speaker:I was merely saying that maybe it was a former, Member of Parliament who was
Speaker:taking trips to South East Asia, and then ended up getting married over there.
Speaker:Yeah, but most of the South East Asian countries are our allies, so
Speaker:And again, what could he possibly have revealed of any significance,
Speaker:other than The location of some fun houses or something, who knows.
Speaker:But, Hardacre, David Hardacre was writing in Crikey a lot about Morrison and
Speaker:the Pentecostal movement and whatnot.
Speaker:And, you know, he's commenting on the departure of Morrison and, really with
Speaker:Morrison and, together with, Brian Houston sort of having a major influence.
Speaker:by Pentecostals on Australian society.
Speaker:And, he said that throughout Morrison's time in office, the question of the
Speaker:influence of religion on his politics has been largely off the table, not a
Speaker:question to be asked in polite company.
Speaker:I like to think that we're not guilty of that.
Speaker:If there's one thing that this podcast does is ask, what
Speaker:is the religious faith of?
Speaker:Politicians.
Speaker:And then, and then start theorising about whether that's
Speaker:had an effect on their politics.
Speaker:And, not enough people have done it.
Speaker:The sort of gist, is it gist or jist?
Speaker:I always get this wrong.
Speaker:Gist, isn't it?
Speaker:Gist?
Speaker:The gist of the, of the article is that maybe we should be examining
Speaker:people's religious belief if we're trying to understand what they're doing.
Speaker:Yeah, so you, you got it right there, Trevor, you know, you were the first.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, I do think that Scott Morrison is a particular.
Speaker:Brand of religious that, no, he's very forthright in his religion.
Speaker:He actually, honestly believes all that crap that is in Revelations
Speaker:is only just around the corner.
Speaker:You know, and that is a very frightening thing that you can actually If someone
Speaker:truly believes all that sort of nonsense, and they're actually making plans and that
Speaker:sort of stuff, then that possibly explains why he walked into, walked into Parliament
Speaker:that day with a hunk of coal in his hand.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So there were some very specific things like the push to move the Australian
Speaker:Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, and also pledging multi million dollar grant
Speaker:to a Pentecostal rehab centre in Perth.
Speaker:Which later had to close down because of its harsh religious based
Speaker:treatments, such as casting out demons.
Speaker:So there's a few specific things like that, but when you're looking at the
Speaker:secret portfolios that Morrison and trying to understand the mentality of
Speaker:somebody who would do that, Tim Costello was saying that The Pentecostal style of
Speaker:leadership can cast some light on that.
Speaker:And he says that the Pentecostal model is that God has blessed me and my decisions.
Speaker:The theology is that God anoints the leader, that the leader casts the
Speaker:vision, and in the governance sense, the people have to be loyal to that vision.
Speaker:Which, he says, is different to the Baptist model where decisions
Speaker:are taken by church congregations, which makes for slower and more
Speaker:difficult decision making process.
Speaker:So, the Pentecostal model has this anointed leader where everyone
Speaker:is supposed to be loyal to them.
Speaker:That would be some explanation for Morrison's secret ministries.
Speaker:Mm hmm Yeah, so anyway, it doesn't explain all of it, but would be part of it It
Speaker:explains it explains a fair amount of it.
Speaker:It doesn't explain everything but explains a lot about it Mm hmm.
Speaker:Yes, and then of course, there's just this whole prosperity gospel
Speaker:thing which is really if you're If you're not wealthy and doing well,
Speaker:you're clearly not in God's favour.
Speaker:So it's an indication you're not in God's favour, so you must be
Speaker:doing something wrong and you therefore deserve it to some extent.
Speaker:That's kind of what happened.
Speaker:To explain robo debt and stuff like that, where there was just, the
Speaker:other aspect of his personality.
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:Scott Morrison, heading off into the sunset, thank goodness.
Speaker:Hello Scott.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Now, more headlines.
Speaker:So, last couple of weeks I've been referring to headlines in
Speaker:particular, I think in relation to Gaza, that are kind of misleading.
Speaker:And, oh, I was listening to something, I think it might have
Speaker:been the Geopolitical Economy Report.
Speaker:Ah, Geopolitical Report?
Speaker:Anyway, there was like this study done of people reading news sources,
Speaker:and essentially A significant number.
Speaker:Maybe it was 40, 50% of people just read the headline and don't go any further.
Speaker:Would that make sense to you, Scott?
Speaker:Yeah, it does.
Speaker:You know, it's one of those things if I, if I'm, if I've got a, if I've haven't,
Speaker:if I've got a hell of a it on and all that sort of stuff, I do look at the headlines.
Speaker:I then didn't do the read, read the first couple of paragraphs, then move on.
Speaker:Hmm, so I'm about to read some headlines and okay, deep within the
Speaker:body of the article there might have been more damning, words written about
Speaker:Israel's actions, but, just examining the headlines and bearing in mind
Speaker:that people quite often just read the headline, it's interesting to look at,
Speaker:at some of the differences, so you guys would be aware of the Flower Massacre?
Speaker:Okay, Where there was this flour being distributed, flour, F L O U R, in Gaza,
Speaker:and, a lot of people milling around and, you know, scrambling for flour because
Speaker:they're starving, and, Israeli troops.
Speaker:Shot them.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:So, the different headlines describing that, Sydney Morning Herald, Dozens
Speaker:killed while waiting for food aid, Gaza Health Authorities say, so, they
Speaker:were killed while waiting for food aid, just by some mysterious action,
Speaker:and then also downplayed because it's Gaza Health Authorities say,
Speaker:meaning a subtle inference, you know, if you can believe what they say,
Speaker:So, that was Sydney Morning Herald.
Speaker:City Morning Herald again, more than a hundred killed as troops
Speaker:fire on Palestinians seeking food.
Speaker:No mention of who those troops actually were.
Speaker:this was a straight up one from the Courier Mail that I saw, Israeli troops
Speaker:shoot Gazans scrambling for food.
Speaker:Well, that's pretty much telling it as it was.
Speaker:And, that's a far more compelling image than the other two that I just read out.
Speaker:New York Times, As Hungry Garzons Crowd an Aid Convoy, A Crush of
Speaker:Bodies, Israeli Gunshots and Chaos.
Speaker:So, not really blaming the Israelis for it, just one of the incidents
Speaker:that happened amongst many.
Speaker:And what was this one here?
Speaker:ABC News?
Speaker:I reckon the ABC's been quite poor on the whole Gaza thing.
Speaker:ABC News.
Speaker:Gaza authorities say, again the influence, if you can believe them,
Speaker:Israeli troops open fire near aid truck.
Speaker:IDF says trampling happened.
Speaker:seems like people, yes, were trampled, running away from the
Speaker:gunfire that was opened up on them.
Speaker:the BBC.
Speaker:More than a hundred die in crowd near Gaza aid convoy.
Speaker:Doesn't mention how, or why, they just died in a crowd.
Speaker:the Cradle is a place I've been going to lately, this website.
Speaker:Israeli troops gunned down thousands of Palestinians awaiting aid in North Gaza.
Speaker:So that's kind of like the Curiamar one.
Speaker:So, it's just an example of how these organisations Just through
Speaker:their headlines are manipulating people's thoughts on, on the same set
Speaker:of facts depending how it's worded.
Speaker:So, you know, none of that you would say was, you know, factually wrong.
Speaker:But it's all the subtle propaganda that, Western media outlets are conducting.
Speaker:People talk about propaganda in Russia and China and other Totalitarian regimes,
Speaker:at least the people in those regimes know, okay, it's government propaganda,
Speaker:I'm not sure what to take into account here, but there's so many people.
Speaker:Yeah, but, you know, of those two that you just mentioned, the BBC and the ABC,
Speaker:they're 100 percent government owned.
Speaker:Yes, yes.
Speaker:You know, which is one of those things, you know, it's I would actually hope that
Speaker:the ABC is actually genuinely independent, but it's beginning to look like they are
Speaker:pushing a government line for Israel.
Speaker:And the New Zealand, version of the ABC is really cracking down on, internally,
Speaker:on people referring to it as genocide.
Speaker:So they're really basically telling reporters and editors.
Speaker:Not to use that word.
Speaker:so.
Speaker:Caitlin Johnson wrote a good article on it and, let me read some of this.
Speaker:Um, um, the Washington Post.
Speaker:Chaotic aid delivery turns deadly as Israel Gazan officials trade blame.
Speaker:Um, More than a hundred killed as crowd waits for aid, Hamas
Speaker:run health ministry says.
Speaker:That was another BBC headline.
Speaker:Yeah, bunch of examples here, she goes into.
Speaker:And making some good points about the different treatment
Speaker:by different organisations.
Speaker:And she's saying that the only good thing about what's happening in Gaza
Speaker:is that it's waking Westerners up to the fact that everything they've
Speaker:been told about their society, their media, and their world is a lie.
Speaker:Not everything, Caitlin, but just, I think it is, I think it's the headline or the
Speaker:name of this podcast episode, like, Garza is performing the role of Toto, who tugged
Speaker:at the curtain and Dorothy the straw man and the tin man looked behind the
Speaker:curtain and saw the wizard was something that they didn't think the wizard was.
Speaker:And that, I think people can recognize the horror and the craziness.
Speaker:of the Gaza situation and look at, well, the treatment by the media of it, and
Speaker:just, I think it's becoming more obvious to people, that sort of propaganda, and
Speaker:maybe more obvious to people just the double standards that are being levied,
Speaker:where if any other country other than Israel was doing this, clearly the
Speaker:world would be up in arms and doing far more to stop it than what they are.
Speaker:I think, I think this Gaza situation is so bad it's, what do you think?
Speaker:Is it a sort of a bit of a tipping point maybe in people's understanding of how
Speaker:the world works and the West favours?
Speaker:Western allies and it's a double standard.
Speaker:I don't think it's actually that sort of tipping point.
Speaker:I think it is probably a tipping point for the way people perceive Israel right now.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I think that people are actually starting to Turn away from Israel, and they are
Speaker:starting to cling on to those, slogans and that sort of stuff that the Palestinians
Speaker:have always said, you know, from the river to the sea, Palestine should be free.
Speaker:Fair enough.
Speaker:What are you going to do with the Jews that are there?
Speaker:You know, it's one of those things I, You know, I think that a terrible mistake
Speaker:was made in 1948, and you've just got to live with the consequences now, so.
Speaker:Or die with the consequences.
Speaker:Well, exactly, or could die with the consequences too.
Speaker:It's one of those things, you know.
Speaker:I think we've examined the, the whole start of the war and everything like
Speaker:that, at infinitum, so there's probably no point in me rehashing that, but,
Speaker:Yeah, I, I think, I think, I think we mentioned a while ago as well, just
Speaker:the reference to an apartheid state.
Speaker:Yeah, it is.
Speaker:It's an Apartheid state.
Speaker:You know, and I think that I think that is resonating with people as
Speaker:well Yeah, absolutely because it's something we all kind of remember.
Speaker:Mmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So what could Australia do?
Speaker:We make parts for F 35 bombers.
Speaker:Did you know that?
Speaker:I didn't know that.
Speaker:And we're selling parts to Israel and all that sort of stuff that
Speaker:are presumably being used in the Israeli war machine to level Gaza.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So we're selling parts for F 35 machines that are then being used
Speaker:to commit human rights atrocities.
Speaker:And so the proposition from people is.
Speaker:That, we should stop supplying, military spare parts to Israel.
Speaker:And just if you want to know how much we have been, according to this article,
Speaker:so in Michael West Media, wrote that over 70 Australian companies supply
Speaker:parts and maintenance to F 35 bombers.
Speaker:Um, every F 35 contains some Australian parts.
Speaker:And a Senate hearing in October 2023 revealed Australia had approved
Speaker:322 permits for defence goods to be exported to Israel since 2017.
Speaker:So 322 permits.
Speaker:And And a similar hearing in February revealed that two approvals have been
Speaker:made since the 7th of October incident.
Speaker:so we, since 7th of October, there's been two approvals for defence
Speaker:goods to be exported to Israel.
Speaker:And, Department of Foreign Affairs and trade figures show that there's been
Speaker:some 10 million in arms and ammunition sales to Israel in the past five years.
Speaker:Turns out we sell ammunition as well, and what we've got is Penny Wong says,
Speaker:we're not exporting arms to Israel.
Speaker:Well, she's clearly wrong there.
Speaker:Well, what she's, she's being, sneaky because it depends how you measure arms.
Speaker:So another article from Michael West, shows that, there's a UN
Speaker:register of conventional arms.
Speaker:And what that's interested in is accounting for arms that
Speaker:are moved around the world.
Speaker:And they don't count spare parts because there would be a lot of double counting
Speaker:of ammunition if you were counting parts.
Speaker:So they're more into counting completed items.
Speaker:And so Penny Wong would be saying that we're not sending completed
Speaker:items, but ignoring the fact that we're sending vital parts.
Speaker:And so that's, that's the sort of shit that we would have expected
Speaker:from the Morrison government, but we're getting it from this Albanese
Speaker:government and Penny Wong, this, this sort of dishonest legal work.
Speaker:I don't expect it from Labor to be honest.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I had hopes of better, but we're not getting it.
Speaker:so, so yeah, in the, in the Netherlands, the Dutch.
Speaker:the appeals court ordered the government to stop the export of F 35 bomber
Speaker:parts to Israel citing the clear risk that it was being used for war crimes.
Speaker:And we've signed treaties saying that, there's an arms trade treaty where you
Speaker:agree that you're not going to sell arms if there's a risk of violations
Speaker:of human rights and international law.
Speaker:humanitarian law.
Speaker:You've got to be sure that's not going to happen with the parts that you're selling.
Speaker:It doesn't talk about completed items, that one, it talks about parts.
Speaker:And so arguably we're in breach of a treaty that we signed up to that says
Speaker:you don't sell parts to groups who are potentially committing human rights
Speaker:abuses, which would seem to be Israel.
Speaker:So fair arguments in all of that to What do you reckon, Scott?
Speaker:Should we stop selling F 35 spare parts and should we cease further
Speaker:sales of ammunition to Israel?
Speaker:Get off that fence, Scott.
Speaker:No, I don't think we should because, Israel's been found, no, they've been
Speaker:ordered to provide more information to the Dutch court over that
Speaker:South African case, haven't they?
Speaker:Oh, the South, the International Criminal, whatever it was, the ICJ.
Speaker:Basically told them, we stopped doing a whole bunch of things and come
Speaker:back to us in a month and report to us about some other things.
Speaker:So, It's one of those things, it looks and smells like they are committing
Speaker:war crimes and that sort of stuff, but they haven't actually been.
Speaker:My understanding is the International Criminal Court hasn't actually
Speaker:completed its accusation of Israel and that sort of stuff and said
Speaker:that you've actually done that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I think Unless you've got some sort of definite, well, you are committing these
Speaker:crimes and this sort of stuff, you've actually got to pull back and that sort of
Speaker:thing, then I don't believe that we should actually have to cease our export of those
Speaker:goods and that sort of stuff to Israel.
Speaker:According to this treaty, all you need is an overriding risk that the
Speaker:weapons will be used in such breaches.
Speaker:So, because you're not going to get criminal, you're not going
Speaker:to get court decisions on, on.
Speaker:On genocide, you know, these things take time, and you should be able to
Speaker:say there's a real risk here that there are human rights abuses being performed
Speaker:with these spare parts, and while that risk is there, stop selling them.
Speaker:Yeah, but there's profits on the line, come on.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, I know there's prophets on the line.
Speaker:It's, it's one of those things like, you know, it's, it's, Can I give
Speaker:you the case of the Netherlands?
Speaker:In making their findings, the court relied on evidence from the United
Speaker:Nations and Amnesty International showing that almost half the bombs
Speaker:dropped by Israel on Gaza are dumb bombs.
Speaker:Unguided bombs are generally not precise.
Speaker:And targets had included hospitals, schools, refugee camps, homes,
Speaker:markets and religious buildings.
Speaker:Like, we know that's the case.
Speaker:It's, it just requires human rights, international human,
Speaker:international humanitarian law.
Speaker:Just breaches of that.
Speaker:You don't need genocide.
Speaker:Just breaches of international humanitarian law.
Speaker:If they haven't, it's It's a clear risk that that's what's going to happen
Speaker:with the parts that we send, surely.
Speaker:What do we sign these treaties for if we're not going to I
Speaker:have no idea what the parts are.
Speaker:Yeah, well, it doesn't matter.
Speaker:It's a part that helps an F 35 fly.
Speaker:And the F 35 is dropping the bombs.
Speaker:If it's for an ejector seat.
Speaker:If it's They can't fly it without it.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:Like if it's an ejector seat, okay, we can't fly the plane.
Speaker:So, without an ejector seat.
Speaker:Great!
Speaker:That stops, that stops them bombing.
Speaker:I don't see how that makes a difference, Joe, but anyway.
Speaker:Yeah, Ah.
Speaker:They've all gone silent in the chat room.
Speaker:We're down to three people anyway.
Speaker:I think that, You're okay with us then, Scott?
Speaker:No, it's one of those things, it's, I don't think we should be
Speaker:selling them any weapons right now.
Speaker:Not until they've actually ceased the Not until they've actually agreed to
Speaker:a ceasefire and that sort of thing.
Speaker:And once they actually agree to a ceasefire, then they can pull out and
Speaker:then We can then open the floodgates and start selling weapons to them again.
Speaker:The Houthis are showing us up.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, the Houthis have actually, they've scored a hit.
Speaker:There is a, ship that has gone down in the Red Sea.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I didn't see that one.
Speaker:Yeah, there's some, it's going to be a disaster for the environment.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's also a ship that had nothing to do with Israel or
Speaker:the United States or Europe.
Speaker:It was flagged under a country whose name escapes me.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:According to who?
Speaker:I
Speaker:don't know.
Speaker:Whatever report I was listening to.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Ah.
Speaker:It's one of those things.
Speaker:I don't think that they're all sweetness and light, Trevor.
Speaker:No, I don't think they are either.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Anyway.
Speaker:Hey, you, you heard about the guy who was a, an American, serviceman
Speaker:who Set himself on fire outside the Israeli embassy in Washington.
Speaker:Self immolated.
Speaker:Yes, as a form of protest about America's involvement in the whole Gaza crisis.
Speaker:Have you heard about that, Scott?
Speaker:No, when I read the email that you sent out yesterday.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:independent journalist Talia Jaynes reports she was able to obtain
Speaker:footage of the incident, and as he was setting himself on fire saying,
Speaker:he will no longer be complicit in genocide and yelling, free Palestine.
Speaker:So, according to this person, and I'm pretty sure it was confirmed by other
Speaker:people, a police officer showed up pointing a gun at the man's burning body.
Speaker:And as, as Caitlin Johnson says, I guess that's just what American cops
Speaker:do when they aren't sure what to do.
Speaker:Someone who was actually trying to save the man reportedly yelled, I don't
Speaker:need guns, I need fire extinguishers.
Speaker:And according to Caitlin Johnson, this just might be the most
Speaker:American thing I've ever heard of.
Speaker:You simply cannot fit more America into a single incident.
Speaker:And a man dying of a horrifying death in protest of war crimes, while
Speaker:a first responder screams at cops to stop pointing their guns at him
Speaker:and to go get fire extinguishers.
Speaker:If you were to pick a single moment in history to sum up the
Speaker:essence and expression of the US Empire, that would be it.
Speaker:A friend of mine in Florida said there was a shooting near him recently.
Speaker:The police had arrested a guy, got him in cuffs in the back of the car.
Speaker:And an acorn fell on the car, so they both pulled their weapons and emptied
Speaker:the full clip of ammunition into the car.
Speaker:None of the bullets hit the guy.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:So both of them would have shot, I don't know, eight to nine rounds each
Speaker:and none of them managed to hit a guy who was in handcuffs in the backseat.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:I heard that story too.
Speaker:I thought to myself, Jesus Christ, you know, they've got some
Speaker:very bad shots on their cuffs.
Speaker:Trigger happy and bad shots.
Speaker:Another black mark against the Albanese government.
Speaker:And our treasurer, Jim Chalmers, because there's currently a provision in the
Speaker:Act that governs the Reserve Bank, gives the government a form of reserve powers.
Speaker:Which it can be used in extreme circumstances, and there's a complex
Speaker:process that can happen when the Treasurer and the Bank are unable to reach
Speaker:agreement, whereby the Treasurer of the day, the elected Treasurer, Minister,
Speaker:can tell the Reserve Bank, what to do.
Speaker:and it's a complicated process, and it's to be used in extreme circumstances,
Speaker:and Chalmers is proposing to get rid of that ability so that a treasurer
Speaker:cannot use that emergency power to tell the unelected Reserve Bank what to do.
Speaker:Yeah, because he's, he's, he's upholding the principle of
Speaker:an independent Reserve Bank.
Speaker:But the section's already there, the power's there, it's been there.
Speaker:I know the power's there and it's just come up.
Speaker:But what about democracy?
Speaker:Well, okay, but, if you, if you had that, if you got that power there and
Speaker:that sort of stuff, I don't believe they should bother removing it.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:However.
Speaker:It's there.
Speaker:If you had a position that, If we went back to the way it was prior to when
Speaker:the Reserve Bank didn't actually set the interest rates, but Keating did, then you
Speaker:could have a situation where a politician could actually say, no, we don't want the
Speaker:interest rates to rise because that'll fuck us over when it's the next election.
Speaker:So we've actually got to, we've got to keep downward pressure on interest rates.
Speaker:that is probably my major concern with not having an independent Reserve Bank.
Speaker:Let me just describe the process.
Speaker:If they're unable to reach agreement, the Treasurer and the Reserve Bank,
Speaker:the RBA has to give the Treasurer a statement about the difference of opinion.
Speaker:The Treasurer can then decide on the policy the bank must adopt
Speaker:following an order he arranged.
Speaker:for the Governor General to issue on the advice of the Executive Council.
Speaker:The Treasurer has 15 sitting days to give each House of Parliament a copy of
Speaker:the policy order and other documents.
Speaker:So it's quite an open process that if our Treasurer and the Reserve Bank are
Speaker:at war over some issue, it's pretty obvious to everybody what it is.
Speaker:so you're not going to have a treasurer and this sort of stuff
Speaker:intervening on the interest rates issue or anything like that?
Speaker:Not on a, you know, quarter percent move, half a percent
Speaker:move, here or there or whatever.
Speaker:In an emergency, he's the elected treasurer.
Speaker:Yeah, I can understand that.
Speaker:And it's not like this Reserve Bank has got a great track record.
Speaker:of, of knowing what it's doing and where we've, and where we've
Speaker:stood back and we've gone, thank goodness the Reserve Bank was in
Speaker:charge rather than the politicians because they were ahead of the game.
Speaker:They saw things that the other guys didn't see.
Speaker:the change has been criticised as a mistake or the proposed change hasn't
Speaker:happened yet by former bank governors, Ian McFarlane and Bernie Fraser.
Speaker:So former Reserve Bank governors have said.
Speaker:Leave the power there.
Speaker:Plus treasurers Paul Keating and Peter Costello have also come
Speaker:out and said, What are you doing?
Speaker:Leave it there.
Speaker:There was a, there was a, an inquiry into the Reserve Bank following its,
Speaker:you know, its, its poor performance.
Speaker:And one of the recommendations in the inquiry was this.
Speaker:And Chalmers has said, Oh, well, I'll adopt that measure.
Speaker:And people are going, Just because it's a Recommendation in an inquiry
Speaker:doesn't mean you have to adopt it.
Speaker:So, but good news, Scott, an alliance between the Greens
Speaker:and the Liberal parties.
Speaker:Now there's Yeah, that's, we'll keep that, we'll keep that under control.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:When, when did we, did we ever expect to perform that sentence in this podcast?
Speaker:An alliance between the Greens and the Liberal parties, is going to force Jim
Speaker:Chalmers to keep a government power, is, is what, The Guardian is saying so.
Speaker:Strange bedfellows there.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:there was an article in Crikey that we should stop treating
Speaker:Paul Keating like a messiah.
Speaker:I've probably been guilty of that at times.
Speaker:Well, I think he has got very much a messianic, complex.
Speaker:You know, you know, he's right on Orcus, I think he's right on that, but, you
Speaker:know, everything else that he's been pushing is exactly the same crap he was
Speaker:still banging on with about in the 1990s.
Speaker:Like, if you actually, if you actually listen to half of what he says,
Speaker:then you would be convinced that the superannuation laws and that sort
Speaker:of stuff were entirely his idea.
Speaker:You know, and everything else that's come from it is entirely his idea,
Speaker:well it wasn't entirely his idea.
Speaker:And you know, the other stuff that he's actually talking about, and
Speaker:that's the stuff just recently, as in six months ago, he's talking about,
Speaker:well, you know, if you don't spend it, the government should get it.
Speaker:You know.
Speaker:That is absolute garbage because it's a, it is a If you don't spend
Speaker:it, the government should get it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:In relation to what?
Speaker:In relation to superannuation.
Speaker:Oh.
Speaker:Also when you die.
Speaker:Yeah, the government should get it.
Speaker:Rather than you, rather than you being able to leave it behind
Speaker:to any of your family members.
Speaker:Keating said that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:One of his policies apparently, recently, something that, Keating says is, there's
Speaker:an issue that all society should have of how far a person's consciousness How
Speaker:far a person's conscientious efforts and wealth should be delivered to the state?
Speaker:Once you start getting the top rate over, in my opinion,
Speaker:39%, it becomes confiscatory.
Speaker:And when they become confiscatory, you lose all that impetus to make
Speaker:a dollar and do clever things.
Speaker:So he's running the argument that a tax rate above 39% Rich people are
Speaker:going to just stop working and stop acquiring wealth because they have tax.
Speaker:I think that's a load of crap, you know You know It's one of those things like
Speaker:dad once told me that back in the 50s and 60s you had tax rates that maxed out at
Speaker:85 percent or 90 percent Now you had to earn a hell of a lot of money to actually
Speaker:pay that amount of tax But you know, I just think to myself that if someone is
Speaker:If someone is earning 10 or 12 million dollars a year and you actually put up
Speaker:their income tax on their final, you know, if you, if you let them, if you
Speaker:let them earn up to a million dollars a year and that sort of stuff, then after
Speaker:that you start increasing the tax rates.
Speaker:Then I just think to myself that no one's going to turn their nose up on an
Speaker:extra two million dollars a year if they only get 200, 000 of that, because 90
Speaker:percent of it's gone to the Commonwealth.
Speaker:According to the writer in this Crikey article, this proposal by Keating isn't
Speaker:backed by economic research, so economist Thomas Piketty, famously wrote Capital,
Speaker:Emmanuel Saez and Stephanie Stantcheva estimate that a socially optimal top
Speaker:tax rate could be as high as 83%.
Speaker:And Piketty's mentor, Tony Atkinson, estimates, estimated 65%.
Speaker:Sarez, previously estimated 73%.
Speaker:so, lots of well known economists put the figure a lot higher than Keating's, 39%,
Speaker:at which time people will stop, doing anything because they're getting taxed.
Speaker:Do you honestly think that anybody is going to pay the top rate of tax anyway?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:If you're that rich, you're going to afford accountants to hide it away.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's difficult to hide, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Ah, where are we at?
Speaker:We've been going an hour and a quarter.
Speaker:Ah, I was tempted to do this Galloway thing, but it's quite lengthy.
Speaker:I might save it for next week.
Speaker:A guy called George Galloway.
Speaker:We'll talk about him next week in his rhetorical style.
Speaker:I do know that my UK friends were very, upset that he won.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:He's got a colourful History and background.
Speaker:Do you win for the Labour Party or do you win for the Conservative Party?
Speaker:The Workers Party.
Speaker:So he's previously been a member of one of the major parties,
Speaker:but he's formed a Workers Party.
Speaker:So it was a by election and he beat all comers and won as
Speaker:his Workers Party candidate.
Speaker:Now it was in an electorate with a high Muslim population, and he is a very
Speaker:big advocate on anti Zionism and pro Palestine and a long history of pro Libya,
Speaker:pro Hezbollah in their fight against, Israeli aggression on the, on the border.
Speaker:So, the comment I see is another Putin funded stooge in
Speaker:the British political system.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Was the, was the commentator's, no, no, no, no, this was in a private forum.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:So, so, yeah, there'd be lots of, if you'd scratch the surface with this guy, there
Speaker:would be lots of stuff that would be, I'm sure, a little bit on the crazy side.
Speaker:Oh God, yeah.
Speaker:But, oh, but we're talking about him now.
Speaker:Let's play the clip.
Speaker:It's seven minutes.
Speaker:I think we're going to be okay with a seven minute clip.
Speaker:This is a long form podcast.
Speaker:Scott, you don't have to go anywhere.
Speaker:You've got ten minutes.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Ignore, ignore the content of his policies, but just in a Keating esque
Speaker:approach to dealing with journalists.
Speaker:Loved what this guy's approach was, so here we go, a bit of, Galloway
Speaker:on how to deal with the media.
Speaker:Yeah, I'll play this.
Speaker:I'm standing here at George Galloway's campaign headquarters.
Speaker:George Galloway, did you just watch the Prime Minister's speech?
Speaker:I didn't watch it, but I understood the first part of it related
Speaker:to The Rochdale by election.
Speaker:The Prime Minister has just said that your election of you to
Speaker:Parliament is beyond horrifying.
Speaker:What do you say to that?
Speaker:Well, I can understand how disappointed he is about the by election.
Speaker:The Conservative Party, which is the government of the country, was crushed,
Speaker:not just by me, but by an independent candidate that no one had ever
Speaker:heard of before outside of Rochdale.
Speaker:So it was a disastrous night for the Conservatives and a
Speaker:disastrous night for Labour.
Speaker:I got more votes than Labour and the Conservatives and the Liberal
Speaker:Democrats and the Reform Party.
Speaker:Put together, which adds up to a pretty crushing rejection of the two party
Speaker:system, so I understand why he's alarmed.
Speaker:I want you to address some of the specifics that the Prime Minister,
Speaker:said about you this evening.
Speaker:He said that you backed Hezbollah.
Speaker:Is that true?
Speaker:I don't know what that means, backed Hezbollah.
Speaker:I I oppose Israel's occupation of Lebanon and I respect the right of people in
Speaker:occupied territory to resist their occupier, and I've done so since Hezbollah
Speaker:was formed and Israel occupied much of Lebanon, right up to the Litani River.
Speaker:Regularly bombing Beirut and so on.
Speaker:so, I'm not sure what business that is of his.
Speaker:Because, you see, the The Hezbollah are a terrorist, terrorist organization.
Speaker:Actually, they're part of the government of Lebanon, a country with which we
Speaker:have sovereign diplomatic relations.
Speaker:I had this debate with Sky's Anna Botting in 2006.
Speaker:It's quite an epic clip, you should watch it.
Speaker:More than a hundred million people have.
Speaker:They said all these things about me in the by election, and in the
Speaker:by election, it was them that got crushed in the democratic process.
Speaker:So I'm not sure why he would reheat it.
Speaker:Now, we're talking about little Rishi Sunak in the fag end
Speaker:of his prime ministership.
Speaker:Don't talk to me as if he's come down from the mount with tablets of stone.
Speaker:The things that he says are somehow meant to owe me.
Speaker:They may owe you, they don't owe me.
Speaker:A lot of people have just watched what the Prime Minister said.
Speaker:This is your opportunity to respond to what he said.
Speaker:He says that there are forces here at home trying to tear us apart.
Speaker:He is implying you are a divisive figure.
Speaker:You have run an election campaign that has tried to appeal particularly, not
Speaker:entirely, to one section of the community.
Speaker:Who won the election?
Speaker:Me or Rishi Sunak?
Speaker:I've got the democratic mandate here, not Rishi Sunak.
Speaker:He didn't even come second.
Speaker:He was lucky to come third.
Speaker:So, don't put to me statements made by Rishi Sunak as if I'm
Speaker:supposed to be impressed by them.
Speaker:We don't, he don't impress me much.
Speaker:We at Sky have spent some time today on the streets of Rochdale, and there
Speaker:are people who say that they feel intimidated by people like you and
Speaker:the people that have supported you.
Speaker:I have just won.
Speaker:And they have pointed out that you have concentrated your campaign on
Speaker:foreign affairs and they worry that Rochdale will not be the winner.
Speaker:I have amended it.
Speaker:That's my answer to you.
Speaker:I was just elected with a thumping majority by the electorate in Rochdale.
Speaker:That's all that matters to me.
Speaker:So why are there people in the streets of Rochdale today worried?
Speaker:Well, people voted yesterday, and they voted for me.
Speaker:Why is that difficult for you to grasp?
Speaker:Why are there people in the streets worried?
Speaker:There may be people who didn't vote for me who are worried.
Speaker:But the majority, the thumping majority, voted for me.
Speaker:I've got the mandate, and I'm going to the House of Commons with it.
Speaker:And it's a mandate, you think, to do what?
Speaker:Because there are people that listen to what you say, what you say about whether
Speaker:or not Israel has a right to exist, what you say about what many Jewish
Speaker:people think are threatening slogans.
Speaker:We had this conversation last night.
Speaker:Why are you reheating it?
Speaker:Because in the light of the Prime Minister's statement Don't
Speaker:keep telling me about the Prime Minister as if he was Moses.
Speaker:Do you not respect the Prime Minister?
Speaker:He's, he's I don't respect Do I respect the Prime Minister?
Speaker:I despise the Prime Minister.
Speaker:And guess what?
Speaker:Guess what?
Speaker:Millions and millions and millions of people in this country.
Speaker:I despise the Prime Minister.
Speaker:I don't respect the Prime Minister at all.
Speaker:What are you planning to do next week when you arrive in Parliament?
Speaker:Well, I'm meeting the Speaker on Monday morning, and then
Speaker:I'll be introduced and sworn in.
Speaker:I'll be escorted by the Right Honourable David Davis MP.
Speaker:Former deputy leader of the Conservative Party.
Speaker:I don't know why he would do that if he thought I was the kind of man
Speaker:you're clearly implying that I am.
Speaker:David Davis is one of the great parliamentarians of today and this age.
Speaker:and I'll be taking my seat in the House of Commons and speaking
Speaker:for the people of Rochdale.
Speaker:That's what I was elected to do.
Speaker:And what is your message also to Keir Starmer?
Speaker:My message to Keir Starmer is that the skids are under you, in scores of
Speaker:Labour seats up and down the country.
Speaker:Because you've lost the trust, you've lost the confidence of millions of
Speaker:your traditional loyal supporters.
Speaker:Now, we have had, we have now had an election where two of the
Speaker:candidates have alleged intimidation.
Speaker:The Prime Minister referenced that intimidation in his address on
Speaker:the steps of the Prime Minister as if that's supposed to impress me.
Speaker:The Prime Minister is, the, the Prime Minister is a rather diminutive,
Speaker:diminished and degraded politician.
Speaker:He made a party political statement.
Speaker:I, I don't care about Rishi Sonak's attitude.
Speaker:What I care about is that the returning officer, a man of unimpeachable integrity,
Speaker:I'm sure you'll agree, declared it a free and fair election and me as the winner.
Speaker:And Rishi Sonak as one of the crushed two.
Speaker:Big parties in the state.
Speaker:So why are two candidates Are you going to keep repeating the same questions to me?
Speaker:Because I have other people to talk to.
Speaker:So let's make this the last one, shall we?
Speaker:We've got a party to deal with.
Speaker:Allegations of intimidation.
Speaker:Allegations that your supporters intimidated other candidates.
Speaker:Five times you've said that.
Speaker:The returning officer declared it last night.
Speaker:You were there as a free and fair election and me as the winner.
Speaker:And the Electoral Commission today have said that they're going to
Speaker:look and talk to the parties.
Speaker:You're going to have to just suck it up.
Speaker:I won the election.
Speaker:Yay!
Speaker:George Galloway, thank you very much indeed.
Speaker:Well, what did you think of his rhetorical style, Scott?
Speaker:Well, it was very forthright, wasn't it?
Speaker:And I also, I did like his final line there.
Speaker:He says, you're just going to have to suck it up.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, it's one of those things, like you said that, Keir Starmer's got the
Speaker:skids under him and all that sort of stuff in seats up and down the country.
Speaker:I don't know whether or not that's true, but clearly Britain's
Speaker:in a hell of a mess right now.
Speaker:Oh, I would imagine it must be a bit of a worry that this
Speaker:third party has won this seat.
Speaker:So Well, you know, it was only one seat, and it was only in a by election, so, you
Speaker:know, it's one of those things, they don't have a compulsory vote over there, they've
Speaker:got a number of people that would have stayed home and all that type of thing.
Speaker:I'm not sure that you could actually, you know, if it was a compulsory ballot like
Speaker:we have here, then you could actually link something to it, you think to
Speaker:yourself, Jesus Christ, these guys have come from nowhere, so they've actually
Speaker:come out and they've pinched it from us.
Speaker:One of those things, I don't know how it's going to turn
Speaker:out with the general election.
Speaker:When is the general election due?
Speaker:It's next year, isn't it, Joe?
Speaker:It's soon ish.
Speaker:Soon ish.
Speaker:This year or next year?
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:Not sure.
Speaker:Yeah, I thought it was a ways off yet, but, like next year, I thought.
Speaker:But, anyway, I just, it was sort of Keating esque in that he just was
Speaker:on the attack on the, on the, on the journalist, just wasn't taking shit and
Speaker:was saying, what you're really saying is this, and why, and your inference
Speaker:is this, and the reality is this, and without beating around the bush, he's
Speaker:a really direct answer to what you were saying, and you're an idiot for keep
Speaker:saying, for keep asking the question.
Speaker:I wish there was more of it.
Speaker:The answer is no later than 28th of Jan, 2025.
Speaker:There we go.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:So, in that interview, he refers to a, an interview that he had with
Speaker:a, yeah, what's the lady's name?
Speaker:Anna Botting.
Speaker:I've got a recording of that, I think on the audio version of this podcast.
Speaker:I'll tack it on to the end.
Speaker:If you like that.
Speaker:If you don't like it, just, quit the podcast.
Speaker:So when we say our farewells, I'm just going to throw that on at the end
Speaker:for people who are listening to the, to the audio version of this where
Speaker:he talks about Lebanon and Hezbollah and, and with this, tackles this
Speaker:journalist over her questioning on that.
Speaker:So one of his former wives was a Palestinian, for context.
Speaker:I think he's got, like, four former wives and, like, ten kids, and
Speaker:Two of them at least are Muslims.
Speaker:Yeah, and, you know, I think he's nearly 16.
Speaker:I think he's got, like, a five year old or something.
Speaker:His personal life, to me, sounds a shambles, but, hey, hey, it's not about
Speaker:his policies and about him himself.
Speaker:It's more about having the ability to think on your feet and to just not put
Speaker:up with shitty questions and deal with things directly that I found refreshing.
Speaker:And I know Keating was, criticized for his performance at the press club when
Speaker:he was talking about Orcus because of the way he just minced up a few journalists.
Speaker:But, honestly, I think it's just needs to be more of it.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:Alright, well that's enough of that.
Speaker:you'll get that other.
Speaker:Interview, I'll tag it on the end of the audio.
Speaker:Well, there you go dear listener, a bit of a longer episode to make
Speaker:up for not being around last week.
Speaker:So, hope you enjoyed it.
Speaker:we'll talk to you next week.
Speaker:Bye for now.
Speaker:And it's a good night from me.
Speaker:And it's a good night from him.
Speaker:Good night.
Speaker:Joining me now is a man not known for sitting on the fence.
Speaker:He passionately opposed the invasion of Iraq and now he feels that Hezbollah
Speaker:is justified in attacking Israel.
Speaker:The Respect MP for Beth Scott Green is in our central London
Speaker:studio, a very good evening, good morning rather to you Mr Galloway.
Speaker:How do you justify your support for Hezbollah and its leader
Speaker:Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah?
Speaker:A preposterous way to introduce an item and what a preposterous first question.
Speaker:Twenty four years ago On the day my daughter was born, and I've just
Speaker:celebrated her 24th birthday, I had to dash to the maternity hospital to see
Speaker:her given birth from a mass demonstration in London against the Israeli
Speaker:invasion and occupation of Lebanon.
Speaker:Israel has been invading and occupying Lebanon.
Speaker:All of my 24-year-old daughter's life, the Hezbollah are a part of the Lebanese
Speaker:national resistance who are trying to drive, having successfully driven most
Speaker:Israelis from their land in 2000 Israel from the rest of their land, and to
Speaker:get back those thousands of Lebanese prisoners who were kidnapped by Israel.
Speaker:Under the terms of their illegal occupation of Lebanon.
Speaker:It's Israel that's invading Lebanon.
Speaker:It's Israel that's attacking Lebanon.
Speaker:Not Lebanon that's attacking Israel.
Speaker:You've just been carrying a report.
Speaker:Of 10 Israeli soldiers on the border getting ready to invade Lebanon, and
Speaker:you ask us to mourn that operation as if it were some kind of war crime.
Speaker:Israel is invading Lebanon and has killed 30 times more Lebanese.
Speaker:You civilians on button though, didn't you?
Speaker:Than have died in Israel.
Speaker:So it's you who should be justifying the evident bias, which is written
Speaker:on every line on your face.
Speaker:And it's in every nuance of your voice, and it's loaded in
Speaker:every question that you ask.
Speaker:Right, the, you put your finger on the button though, didn't you?
Speaker:When you said that Hezbollah was set up back in the 1980s in order to remove
Speaker:every Israeli soldier from Lebanese soil.
Speaker:As you said It achieved that in 2000.
Speaker:No, it didn't.
Speaker:This is a setback.
Speaker:No, it didn't.
Speaker:It didn't.
Speaker:This is a key point that you're, you're concealing from your viewers.
Speaker:Israel was forced out of most of the south of Lebanon in 2000.
Speaker:It still occupies a part of Lebanon since 2000 and it has thousands
Speaker:of Lebanese, thousands of Lebanese prisoners have been kidnapped by Israel.
Speaker:Hezbollah and the Lebanese government want them to be released.
Speaker:News spokesman who said that the three.
Speaker:Lebanese who, have been, captured, perhaps you'd like to use that
Speaker:word, have been before a judge, and been to a court of law.
Speaker:Oh, please, have a slightly longer memory than four weeks.
Speaker:I'm talking about the thousands of prisoners taken during the
Speaker:18 years of Israeli occupation.
Speaker:Illegal occupation of South Lebanon.
Speaker:These are the prisoners that have to be released in exchange for the Israeli
Speaker:soldiers that were captured at the beginning of this wave of the crisis.
Speaker:Can I ask you about a report that's in, today's Sunday Telegraph which
Speaker:showed that Iran has given Hezbollah long range, missiles capable of
Speaker:targeting any part of Israel.
Speaker:Iran, according to this, Iranian MP who helped Found Hezbollah, has also
Speaker:said that he's, Iran has given the organization, organization, author,
Speaker:authorization, rather, to target Tel Aviv.
Speaker:Can you blame Israel for wanting to destroy those missiles?
Speaker:Look, this is preposterous.
Speaker:America has given Israel missiles that can target not just every city
Speaker:in Lebanon, but every city in the Arab and Muslim world, including Iran.
Speaker:Why should America be allowed to give long range missiles to Israel,
Speaker:including hundreds of nuclear missiles?
Speaker:But Iran is not a terrorist organization.
Speaker:But, but they're not a terrorist organization.
Speaker:Only in the mind of Rupert Murdoch's Sky, and the Times, and the
Speaker:Sun, and the News of the World.
Speaker:They're not a terrorist organization.
Speaker:It's Israel that is a terrorist state.
Speaker:Is another man's freedom fighter.
Speaker:We know that perfectly well.
Speaker:In most people's eyes, they are deemed to be They had a choice, didn't they?
Speaker:Let's understand this.
Speaker:They had a choice, like the IRA, to take on politics.
Speaker:I'm saying they had a choice to absorb the idea of politics.
Speaker:They've got two Hezbollah cabinet ministers.
Speaker:One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
Speaker:You are totally wrong in saying that in most people's eyes,
Speaker:Hezbollah are terrorists.
Speaker:In most people's eyes, Israel is a terrorist state.
Speaker:It's the fact that you cannot comprehend that fact that leads to
Speaker:the bias which runs through all of your reporting and every question that
Speaker:you've asked me in this interview.
Speaker:Can I ask you one question?
Speaker:I was relating to the IRA and Sinn Féin.
Speaker:They have decided to embrace politics.
Speaker:Hezbollah had the chance to embrace politics.
Speaker:They've already got two cabinet ministers, they're well respected in the South.
Speaker:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker:If you listen to me, I'm saying they've got two cabinet ministers already.
Speaker:They had a chance to do that.
Speaker:Why did they need to capture and kill Israeli soldiers on the border?
Speaker:Surely that sets back their ambitions to be a political force
Speaker:inside a democratic Lebanon.
Speaker:Look, because Israel occupies their country and holds thousands
Speaker:of their compatriots as kidnap hostages in their dungeons.
Speaker:It's really very Simple.
Speaker:Except, if you think, only in a clock that goes back four weeks.
Speaker:If you know, and you're old enough to know better, that this, origins
Speaker:of this conflict are not four weeks, or four years, or fourteen
Speaker:years, but are decades old.
Speaker:You want people to think that the crisis started when the clock
Speaker:started ticking on Sky News.
Speaker:No, I don't.
Speaker:I don't at all.
Speaker:I want to ask you one Yeah, I want to ask you one final question.
Speaker:Do you think that the, the four weeks that we've seen, as you mentioned,
Speaker:the 26 days of this crisis, has set back Hezbollah's ambition, ambitions?
Speaker:Not, not only are Israeli soldiers now over the border
Speaker:Let me finish, let me finish.
Speaker:Would you mind letting me finish, please?
Speaker:Not only are Israeli soldiers over the border in sizable numbers, but also,
Speaker:their claims to be a good political organization, to help a democratic
Speaker:Lebanese government with the Syrians who've also now left an independent state,
Speaker:that has also come to blows as well.
Speaker:What a silly question.
Speaker:What a silly person you are.
Speaker:Hezbollah is winning the war, you can see it on the other half of the screen.
Speaker:Hezbollah is more popular today.
Speaker:That was not my question.
Speaker:Hezbollah is more popular today.
Speaker:In Lebanon, amongst Christians, amongst Sunnis, amongst Shiites,
Speaker:amongst all Arabs, amongst all Muslims, than it has ever been.
Speaker:It's Israel who's lost the war, and Bush and Blair for politically organizing
Speaker:the war, who've lost politically.
Speaker:This is a defeat for Bush and Blair and Israel.
Speaker:Everybody but you can see it.
Speaker:Let me separate out that question then.
Speaker:Is it a setback, given that Hezbollah was set up in order to get Israeli
Speaker:soldiers off Lebanese soil, that there are now more Israeli soldiers on Lebanese
Speaker:soil than there were 26 days ago?
Speaker:Well, they seem to be getting a bloody good hiding on the other half
Speaker:of the screen that I'm watching.
Speaker:Maybe you can't see it, but I'm watching them getting a
Speaker:bloody good hiding in the war.
Speaker:So, if that's a success, I'm not sure what a failure would look like.
Speaker:The reality is That this conflict will go on.
Speaker:The United Nations Resolution solves nothing, gives Lebanon nothing, gives
Speaker:the prisoners in Israeli dungeons nothing, and as Ann Kluid, my erstwhile
Speaker:colleague, was just saying, Israel has just kidnapped even more Palestinian
Speaker:politicians, cabinet ministers, members of parliament, and thousands
Speaker:of others held in Israeli dungeons.
Speaker:And this war will continue until the overall settlement is reached.
Speaker:That settlement must mean Israeli withdrawal from all occupied
Speaker:territory that it currently holds since the war in 1967, the release
Speaker:of all political prisoners, and a state for the Palestinians, with
Speaker:East Jerusalem as its capital.
Speaker:No justice.
Speaker:No peace.
Speaker:You're not going out of business as a newscaster in Jerusalem anytime soon.
Speaker:Believe me.
Speaker:Well, as usual, you have prompted a huge email response,
Speaker:both for and against you, Mr.
Speaker:Galloway, so we'll leave it there.
Speaker:I have to say that some people might find it offensive when, more
Speaker:families are mourning their dead.
Speaker:You, to hear you say that it was, a political hideout,
Speaker:so You don't give a damn.
Speaker:You don't give a damn.
Speaker:You don't even know about the Palestinian families.
Speaker:You don't even know that they exist.
Speaker:Tell me the name.
Speaker:Of one member of the seven members of the same family, slaughtered on the
Speaker:beach in Gaza by an Israeli warship.
Speaker:You don't even know their name, but you know the name of every
Speaker:Israeli soldier who's been taken prisoner in this conflict.
Speaker:Because you believe, whether you know it or not, that Israeli
Speaker:blood is more valuable than the blood of Lebanese or Palestinians.
Speaker:That's the truth, and the discerning of your viewers already know it.
